Interview/Between E. G. White and W. C. White
NP
March 3, 1907
Previously unpublished.
[Ellen G. White:] I was very weary and I retired and then I did not know just what time of night it was before Elder Haskell went to bed. I think it must have been as late as ten. I have written here: (Reads manuscript.) 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 1
It seemed as though every portion of me was just as light as air. This, I said, is something I have never had before. And I do not know how long it was after that, but it was perfect peace, perfect joy and happiness. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 2
The light was there, and the peace was there, all at once, and after the light had passed away, the peace and rest continued. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 3
[W. C. White:] There were a number of men present: do you remember who they were? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 4
[Ellen G. White:] That was when I lost a sense of the light. Then I went into a council meeting, the next move. I thought Olsen was there, and there were several there, but I cannot remember their countenances. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 5
[W. C. White:] They were leading men in our work in different parts of the world? Was Daniells there and Jones? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 6
[Ellen G. White:] I thought it was. Then I began to talk about things. And I said, There must be an entirely different atmosphere brought into all our meetings, and all our conversation. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 7
[W. C. White:] You refer to council meetings, committee meetings, counseling about the work? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 8
[Ellen G. White:] Yes. We were counseling about the work: There must be this happy light, it seemed this happy light, if we would breathe it in, if we would take in the happiness of light and not allow ourselves to get in a kind of a fretful, trying way as we had done. I was telling them as though it was a thing that was past, I was telling them what repose I had in Christ, oh, what rest in body; for my body was just as light as air. I never had such an experience before. Then I talked to them like this: We, every one of us, make ourselves [a] great deal more work than the Lord wants us to. What the Lord wants us to do is to manage unselfishly, but the great thing is to get that light that Myself has given, that Myself has opened to His servant. I said to get that light in where there is one to get in, where there are hundreds to acknowledge it, in such a way that they will get it, because they will see by reading it, that it is the voice of God, not of a human being. And that impression will come upon them that it is so. And the light in these books—God means that it shall not stay on a shelf, but that it shall be circulated, and that it shall go to everywhere that it can possibly go, as did the Object Lessons. Now the Object Lessons, God sold that. The angels of God were there in these Object Lessons, and they brought in, do you know how much? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 9
[W. C. White:] A little over two hundred thousand dollars. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 10
[Ellen G. White:] Well, someone told me that it brought in no less than three hundred thousand, but you know I cannot tell. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 11
[W. C. White:] Did Brother Haskell talk in this council meeting? Here you say, “Elder Haskell and his wife,”—Did his talk follow just after you were talking? Then Elder Haskell spoke? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 12
[Ellen G. White:] I think it was. I told them if they could only feel the light that I had on the occasion, oh, if they could only feel it. Well, I cannot describe it, no description can be given to it. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 13
[W. C. White:] Well, what would be the result if they could feel that light? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 14
[Ellen G. White:] If they could feel that light, the angels of God, they might know, were right there, working with them and for them. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 15
[W. C. White:] That was to give them courage for their work? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 16
[Ellen G. White:] Yes, putting courage into their work. And that God is not glorified at all to have in this time of this earth's history ambitions or selfishness or anything of that order. And the love for the brethren that Christ has given them, He means just what He says. I talked that over, and that we should guard our words just as carefully as Christ has given us evidence that we should do. Now I do not know as I can tell you any more about this matter that I tell you, because it cannot be told, and that is all there is to it. It could be felt, but cannot be told. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 17
[W. C. White:] Then comes in after that what you have written about Brother Haskell's talk? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 18
[Ellen G. White:] I know Brother Haskell sat there, and he felt very earnest, but he was in danger of carrying his matter too far of cheapness, of bringing in the cheapness, so that he could not realize the profits, and to do in some other way as it would be essential to do. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 19
[W. C. White:] Well, how much of this was argued before that council? And then when did the scene change, and you were in camp-meeting? You told me about being in meetings. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 20
[Ellen G. White:] That was after the talk, because we all knelt down, and we began to pray, and the sweet Spirit of the Lord came in, and I said, This is as it was on the day of Pentecost. They had to get the Holy Spirit first. Then there were the angels of God to make the impression on the human minds, to those that had never denominated themselves as believers, and yet they had had evidence in regard to believing, but they never had taken their stand. It was the fear of persecution, fear of the Jews, what they would do to them. All the time they were fearing that, but when this came upon them, they felt as though when the prison doors were opened, and they were bid to go out, that led them to see that God would deliver if He wanted them to be delivered, and if not, they were ready to suffer what they would suffer. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 21
But the books—Elder Haskell is doing himself injustice, and it is not doing those that he is helping all that good that he supposes it will do. They have got to make, to feel, the same spirit of sacrifice, as well as the rest. All of us have got to feel it. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 22
[W. C. White:] Was that matter discussed in the council in which you were in, in the night? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 23
[Ellen G. White:] Yes, it was thought essential to get the publications to those who have not got them. Brother Haskell was a very prominent one, that was saying what could be done, and the rest did not grasp it readily, until the Spirit of God kept coming in more and more. Then they said they were ready to take it up, on any ground that they might formulate. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 24
[W. C. White:] Did any one give Brother Haskell instruction about this matter, that he was doing himself injustice? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 25
[Ellen G. White:] Yes. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 26
[W. C. White:] Who was it [that] gave him that instruction? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 27
[Ellen G. White:] It was not any one there. It seemed as though the Spirit of God came so forcibly, that then the rest spoke out and said, You have been doing yourself injustice. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 28
[W. C. White:] How did the council meeting terminate? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 29
[Ellen G. White:] Well, the council meeting turned out that it was one of the most successful meetings for unity that we have realized, the most successful. I told them on that occasion, You have been very backward, you have not done justice by your Brothers Magan and Sutherland; you have not done justice; for they worked when they were at Berrien Springs clear beyond what they should have worked. Others did not engage with them, did not take hold with them, and they worked too much and too hard; [they] placed themselves in a situation where it was; it did not place them right before the brethren and before the people. They worked so hard that they felt that they were not used right; they had an impression that they were not used right. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 30
[W. C. White:] Now, can you tell us about the meeting where the people were coming and getting books? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 31
[Ellen G. White:] When this talk was through it seemed as though we were in a large meeting, and they kept coming forward and taking the books. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 32
[W. C. White:] What kind of people were they—canvassers or ordinary church members? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 33
[Ellen G. White:] Well, they were more ordinary church members. They were a unity—united—and there were canvassers also. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 34
[W. C. White:] And what can you tell us about their getting the books? They came forward and bought them in all quantities and large quantities? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 35
[Ellen G. White:] Yes, different quantities. They bought the books, and they said, We will do our best to handle them. And someone spoke up and said, And you may know that the angels of God will be working on human minds; it would not be a discouraging business. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 36
[W. C. White:] You told me this morning that one came to take his whole arms full, and some wanted to stop him. Who was it—a canvasser, some bookman wanted to stop him? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 37
[Ellen G. White:] I cannot remember who that was, but that point, it is not quite fresh to my mind. But that was everything. Then they would break out, one voice and another and another: We have been asleep. We have not realized that this world is to be warned. Here we have gone on and have not measured the matter. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 38
[W. C. White:] Were they paying for the books as they took them? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 39
[Ellen G. White:] Yes, there were many paying. Some were trying to get them—to pay for them after they had sold them. They were not all paying. But they let them have them; they did not deny them. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 40
[W. C. White:] And was there anything to indicate how much they paid for them? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 41
[Ellen G. White:] I cannot remember how much they paid. There was this [to] take into account—that those that had to carry on the work of educating, educating, and educating, they would have [the] encouragement of their brethren, and not to discourage them, because this educating has got to go on. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 42
[W. C. White:] You mean such work as Brother and Sister Haskell are doing? 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 43
[Ellen G. White:] Yes, such work as to be educating. Now they feel [as] of good courage about their little meetings as you could ask anybody to feel. They feel wonderful courage. They do not feel discouraged, because they are pleased themselves. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 44
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The light was given that the devil is a great deal more busy than we are. He is a great deal more busy to carry his plans, and we let him do it. God wants us to rally, and He wants us not to talk discouragement. While we will not meet them on the devil's ground, yet we should be prepared to stand just as firm as a rock on the truths that we have had. That is just how Elder Ballenger has tried to do. He has brought it in, wove it in so cunning-like, and that is just a snare of the devil. To take one pin, or one single thing from the structure. You take one, and the whole will be gone before you know it. 22LtMs, Ms 195, 1907, par. 45