Interview/At Paradise Valley Sanitarium
“Paradise Valley Sanitarium,” National City, California
April 17, 1910
Previously unpublished.
Interview Held With Mrs. E. G. White at Paradise Valley Sanitarium, April 17, 1910 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 1
Present: Mrs. E. G. White, Elder C. E. Ford, Brother Brown, Miss Sara McEnterfer. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 2
C. E. Ford: I have been in San Diego about seven months, and I have been doing the best I could, the Lord helping me; I have come to a place where I need help in the matter of Brother Healey’s case. I brought Brother Brown along this morning, as he is well acquainted with the work, to see if you could give me any advice. The matter is like this: When I was sent down here, I wrote to you about it. I was sent down by the Conference Committee. Your son read my letter to you, and you were pleased to know that there was some provision made for San Diego. I have felt that it would be best not to ask Brother Healey to preach very often. There was provision made to get him away, out in the field to take up religious liberty work. But he did not go. He seemed to want to stay by the church, and it makes it embarrassing for me. I said I would have him preach on religious liberty. But he was so cutting and sarcastic that the people took it up in the church. To show him respect, I would ask him to pray, etc., but I did not think it best to ask him to preach. This caused his friends to think that I was doing him an injustice in not asking him to preach. But I felt it would save controversy. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 3
E. G. White: Exactly. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 4
C. E. Ford: When I knew that you were coming to speak yesterday, I felt impressed not to ask him into the pulpit. I tried to get the matter arranged so that those who were to be in the pulpit would be there before he got in, but he was in the church beforehand. He belongs out in the field, is directed out there by the Conference Committee. I did not like to have him seated in the pulpit when you were there, under the circumstances. Now there will be criticism about that, and I want to know from you whether I have done the right thing about it. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 5
E. G. White: How do I know? I do not want to give any opinion unless I know what I am doing. I do not want to do it, because I think you will do just as well to go right ahead yourself and do what you are doing as to refer it to me. He knows my position as well as you do. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 6
C. E. Ford: But the church does not understand the position, and they look to me. The spiritual part of the church is standing by me. I have their sympathy and prayers. There has been some friction, but I would be glad if the council could understand the position some way, if you could give them some information regarding the attitude of Brother Healey in some kind of form. They would take it from you rather than from me. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 7
E. G. White: I did not dream that he would be there. What he has been doing or anything about it I am ignorant of; I have no knowledge of it. And for me to speak not intelligently would be unwise. I want to know what I am speaking. But there are men that are in positions of responsibility. Is not Elder Andross the very one for you to talk to? 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 8
C. E. Ford: He wanted me to talk with you about this. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 9
E. G. White: They try to shift it on to me. But the man Healey knows that I have struck against him over and over again, and he will go away saying, I will have it the next time. And then I will talk it over again and take my position, but he will still say, I will have it the next time. It does not do a bit of good, no matter who may oppose him, unless there is an influence that he must heed. He knows me and my position very well. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 10
C. E. Ford: They seem to be afraid here to handle the situation. They seemed to think I was the only man to meet Brother Healey, but I cannot meet him as a man. I am willing to fill my place as a minister if the committee will stand by me, and I think they will for they have so far. In the church work his wife has been a bitter enemy of mine ever since I came to San Diego. She has been jealous of me. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 11
E. G. White: Exactly. It has been so all the time. Nothing could advance, nothing could go ahead, because of interfering with him; and that thing has got to be settled some way, but it is not I that must settle it. You must bring your men in here and let them see that he is holding the situation here. Brother Simpson came in here, and he was a wise laborer and had success everywhere he went; but that man just ridiculed him to death. That is just what he did. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 12
Brother Brown: Those whom Brother Simpson brought into the truth here have been mistreated by him since they came into the church. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 13
E. G. White: Exactly. There is that jealousy in him that he can never work with anyone else. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 14
Brother Brown: I taught the church school two years, but Brother Healey never gave me one atom of help. I have never had any assistance from him. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 15
E. G. White: He does not want anybody to come in here. But this must be broken up, and I shall work to have it done. If Brother Andross comes in before I go, I will just lay the matter—No, you must;—You must lay the matter before him, not me. I never pitied a man as I did Brother Simpson. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 16
C. E. Ford: I have met more converts who came in under his labors while he was here than those who came in under any other three ministers. The great majority of those who have come in recently have come through his labors. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 17
E. G. White: Brother Healey wants the credit of everything that is done, to please him; but when it comes to having it straight, firm, and right in order just as God would have it, he has no sympathy with it. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 18
Brother Brown: He did not take up the work that Brother Simpson left here and carry it on. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 19
E. G. White: Brother Simpson would have been alive today if he had united with him and helped him. I thought he would be pleased to do this, but he was not. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 20
C. E. Ford: I can work with Brother Healey if he would work, but he will not work that way. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 21
E. G. White: I was placed in a terrible position. Brother Parsons wanted to come in here. He wrote to me and wanted me to write a sort of recommendation, and I knew what it would be if I did. I did not write. I do not know what Brother Parsons thinks because I did not respond, for I have confidence in him. This is going to come up over and over, unless it is settled in some way. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 22
C. E. Ford: Brother Parsons took it for granted that he was not the man to come. He said if he had been the man he would have come, but he was going to pray for me. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 23
E. G. White: I did not know what would come, but I did not answer. I knew that Parsons is a man who, if they will give him a chance, will do a good work, but this other party would begin to maneuver. Nothing can be done unless this is broken up and he goes to another place, and the Conference must do it. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 24
C. E. Ford: Do you think it was right for me not to ask him to preach? 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 25
E. G. White: Certainly; if you are going to labor here, let him go somewhere else. You must carry it right straight along as you would if there were no such a man as Elder Healey. If you two men are here to carry on the work, why, carry it on humbly, with prayer and sincerity. Treat him as respectfully as possible; but when he wants to take the whole thing out of your hands, you must take a decided position. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 26
C. E. Ford: We have a council in the church, and since the work has changed hands, he is determined to meet with this council without any invitation. He will always take the opposite position from mine, no matter what it is, and it makes it very embarrassing. I told them who the members of the council were, the ones elected, and after that he still came in. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 27
E. G. White: He is from everlasting to everlasting in the wrong course. What can be done, I am not sufficient to say. If it were I that had the thing to do, I should get right up in the pulpit and speak just as though there were no such man alive, as I did yesterday. That is what I should do. But what to say to you, I do not know. It is a matter that you cannot easily handle. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 28
I have had to do everything that I could to get our institutions into any kind of position. He would squeeze himself in, and he wanted to be chaplain at Glendale. I was sick, real sick. But I told them to take me downstairs. They took me down, and said I, Here is Elder Healey. He thinks that he could fill a position here, but said I, Elder Healey, you cannot do it. It needs a man in such a position as this that has a different countenance than you have. You cannot be put in here. I would not consent to it for a moment. I want you to understand it. What they want is a man of prayer, who is connected with God. (For he would go out of meeting after I had been there and turn what I had said right around and make an entirely different thing of it. So I understand the man perfectly. I wish I did not know him so well.) But I had to stand up in that council, and say, From the light God has given me, you are not to fill a position here at all. Two or three times I have had to do these things. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 29
C. E. Ford: The thing I am confused most about is that I am going away for a couple of weeks before I take up the work of holding meetings in National City. The question is whether the elders should ask him to preach in my absence. I feel that I should not show him any countenance, but go right ahead as though he were not here. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 30
E. G. White: Brother Andross has got to come in here and take a position to help in these matters. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 31
C. E. Ford: Have you any light for me on this? 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 32
E. G. White: Why, do just as if there were not such a man here. Do it kindly and religiously, I would advise. But no matter if you do it ever so religiously, you will be met just the same. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 33
C. E. Ford: If I know I am right, I do not care about the criticism. But I do not want to treat him unjustly. It will hurt him, of course. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 34
E. G. White: I think there must be an outside work for him. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 35
Brother Brown: There have been appointments made out in the field for him, but he will not go out to fill them. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 36
E. G. White: I know him like a book. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 37
C. E. Ford: Elder Andross and I were in your room the other morning, talking about this same thing, and he is perplexed as I am. I said to him, “Brother Andross, you will have to do something to help me.” He said, “We will go and talk to Sister White about it.” 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 38
E. G. White: And what did I say? 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 39
C. E. Ford: You said about what you have said this morning. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 40
E. G. White: If the cause of God must be hindered all the time, there must be something done. We should have had a large meetinghouse and a large congregation today if it were not for this very thing. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 41
C. E. Ford: I want to say for your encouragement, Sister White, that the work is looking up in San Diego. Our congregations are increasing, and we have a good interest. The spiritual condition is better than it has been in years. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 42
E. G. White: You just take a course like a humble Christian just as though there were not such a man in the world. He abused Simpson shamefully. He kept at it, and Simpson, when he saw how things were going, pondered it over, and he could not get over it. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 43
Brother Brown: I never saw Brother Simpson, but after he left here, Brother Healey did not take up the work and visit his members; consequently a lot of them dropped out. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 44
E. G. White: He would talk against him and undermine the work that he had done. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 45
Brother Brown: He said his method of presenting the truth was entirely contrary to the Bible and the testimonies. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 46
E. G. White: It is false. I shall make my report at the coming meeting, that if it is going to be so that he is going to keep on here, the work might just as well stop, because he will keep it hanging back all the time. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 47
C. E. Ford: He is right there. He owns that corner where the church stands, and part of the ground that the church stands on. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 48
E. G. White: I would take that church off that corner if it were possible. And you have good reason to, for it will not accommodate the people that meet there on special occasions. Get it far enough away. Get a lot somewhere away from him. That is the very best thing you can do. You have a good excuse—we cannot accommodate the people. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 49
Brother Brown: It is a bad place for our church school. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 50
C. E. Ford: I cannot see any other way out. He owns the property and will stay there. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 51
E. G. White: You must lay these matters before them in the meetings that are soon to be held. I expect to be there, and Willie expects to be there, and there will be a good many intelligent men there who understand the situation. ... I do not want anything to go from me that he will make a great fuss over. But you know my position. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 52
C. E. Ford: It is very encouraging anyway to have had this talk with you, and we thank you for your time. 25LtMs, Ms 65, 1910, par. 53